This weekend, on CNN’s special “The Next President: A World of Challenges,” former secretaries of state gathered to give advise to our future president on issues that he will face upon entering office – including Darfur. During the special, Michael Hermon of Minneapolis, Minnesota asked the following of Warren Christopher, Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, James Baker, and Colin Powell:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Michael Herman (ph). I’m from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
And I was wondering, how do you see the U.S. responding to humanitarian crises, like the situation in Darfur?
CHRISTOPHER: When you look at some of the problems around the world, we need to work through the other countries of the world and other regional organizations. And that’s especially true in Darfur.
It’s a very demanding, appealing crisis, but I’m not sure putting a lot of American troops in there, without thinking through those other issues, makes a lot of sense for us.
POWELL: I couldn’t agree more with Chris. You look at something like Darfur, and it just breaks your heart. But the ultimate solution to the crisis in Darfur is political solution between the rebels and the government in Khartoum.
AMANPOUR: Well, not to put…
POWELL: We’ve done a lot, though, with humanitarian support in other places.
AMANPOUR: Not to put too fine a point on it. It’s the same that was said about Bosnia, Rwanda, and et cetera. Since all of you have presided over these periods in American history and global history, can we pin you down?
The United States has called it genocide, what’s happening in Darfur. Secretary Albright, what should the next president do?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think it’s in U.S. national interests, in fact, to do something about humanitarian situations that lead to or are genocidal. And the question is how you get the will of the American people behind it. It is not easy.
But, I’ll say this, is, if you’re the United States, you’re damned if you do or damned if you don’t. We intervened in Somalia, and people thought that was a mistake. We didn’t intervene in Rwanda, and people thought that was a mistake.
And what has to happen is for us to be clearer about the extent to which humanitarian intervention and humanitarian assistance is in U.S. national interest. And if it is, as I believe it is, it’s to have the various resources that are necessary for it and explain it to the American people as a national security issue.
BAKER: But you also have to have a healthy dose of national interest involved, because otherwise you lose the support of the American people. Your foreign policy can only be sustained as long as you bring the American people along with it. They are the final arbiter of foreign policy in our democracy.
We cannot be the policemen for the world. We shouldn’t be asked to be, couldn’t be if we wanted.
AMANPOUR: OK, so many, many people on campuses all over the United States have distinguished themselves by creating a grassroots movement for Darfur. If I remember, you in your administration said that we don’t have a dog in this fight about the Balkans, about Bosnia…
BAKER: That’s not actually what I said, but it’s now out there in the ether, and you’ll never get rid of it.
AMANPOUR: What did you say?
BAKER: I didn’t say that. I didn’t say that. It was reported that I said that, but I didn’t. I didn’t say it.
AMANPOUR: OK, but, nonetheless, we didn’t do anything at that time. So the question is, should the American president lead…
BAKER: Well, we didn’t do anything for about four or five years after that, if I’m not mistaken.
AMANPOUR: OK. Should the American president lead on these issues of vital human rights interests?
BAKER: He should lead, but he should lead wisely and not commit American lives to a task that is not going to be supported by the American people. We should do what Colin said: work through private voluntary organizations, do what we can diplomatically with countries that are involved in Darfur, particularly the government of Sudan, the government of China and others, to bring about a solution to the problem.
But don’t start talking about sending troops on an issue like that all the way around the world, because you’re going to lose the American people. Then you’ll lose the policy.
ALBRIGHT: Then we should not have declared it genocide, because once it’s declared a genocide…
BAKER: I didn’t declare it genocide, Madeleine.
POWELL: I did.
ALBRIGHT: Well…
(LAUGHTER)
AMANPOUR: You did?
POWELL: I did. No, I did. I sent teams over to see what was going on, and the reports came back in. And it was a judgment call on my part.
But based on what I saw the Janjaweed doing under the leadership of the Khartoum regime and how it was affecting the people — and I visited the area — I felt that it met the standards of being called genocidal.
And our responsibility when we make such a declaration is to report it to the U.N. for the U.N. to make a judgment independently, under the law. This is the international law.
And the U.N. made their analysis and did not judge it to be genocide, and we pretty much stand alone in the international community calling it that. And I still think it is.
The problem has to be solved politically between the government in Khartoum and the rebels.
SESNO: If I may just follow up briefly on that, then, Secretary Albright, is not there then an important point to be made by the United States and the world going on record and saying, “This is genocide,” recognizing the limitations as you’ve just established them. It does clearly establish a point, an important historical point, does it not?
ALBRIGHT: I think it does. But, also, there are so many aspects to this. We need to figure out how to prevent genocide. And one of the things…
SESNO: What you’re saying is you shouldn’t declare it if you can’t back it up with your troops if it’s happening?
ALBRIGHT: Well, I think there is an issue, in terms of it isn’t just our troops. It’s a matter of whether we provide logistics assistance to those who might want to go in, strengthen the African Union, decide whether there should be a no-fly zone.
SESNO: Do something.
ALBRIGHT: But I have to say, I anguish over this, because I know how difficult it is. And we didn’t do anything about Bosnia for a while, but we actually did in the end, and we won, and we did it in Kosovo, and it was the right thing to do.
And I think we have to figure out where our resources are. And when you say it’s up to the president of the United States, I agree. And that’s why we have to figure out what the role of the United States is. That is what this election is about.
AMANPOUR: And, unfortunately, we are out of time now, and we’d like to thank our panel once again, the former Secretaries of State Warren Christopher, Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, James Baker, and Colin Powell. Thank you all very much for being here.
Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, James Baker, and Colin Powell
The opinions expressed here are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the position of the Save Darfur Coalition.
